NotationCard
BSBrainstorm
CRCabal Ritual
CTCabal Therapy
CoSCavern of Souls
CoVChain of Vapor
DDDoomsday
DRDark Ritual
DWDivining Witch
DurDuress
ETEchoing Truth
EmEmrakul, the Aeons Torn
FoNForce of Negation
FoWForce of Will
LEDLion's Eye Diamond
LMLaboratory Maniac
LPLotus Petal
PndPonder
PrePreordain
REBRed Elemental Blast
SESurgical Extraction
SIShelldock Isle
SWStreet Wraith
SdTSensei's Divining Top
StPSwords to Plowshares
TOThassa's Oracle
ToATendrils of Agony
TszThoughtseize

"Daze" by Matthew D. Wilson

Fat Stacks: Obtaining Maximum Value from Your Interaction

By Doishy
Reading time: 29 minutes

With the tumultuous start to the year now easing up a little and Lurrus/the Companion mechanic being pushed out, we are able (at least until the next printing disaster) to take stock and ease into a semi stable metagame. For Doomsday, this means being able to stack up some results and get some real testing in. The core of Meandeck Doomsday is pretty well settled now however there are some key variations that are being tested and debated on.

Recently, in the Discord, the discussion came up of the advantages and disadvantages of different interaction elements. This includes choices which inform colour selection for the main deck, sideboard and takes into account playstyle and meta considerations.

In this article I will look to build upon what was discussed on the splash colour selection in in my last article and go into some of the nuances in using the different tools available to us when playing. I will also provide some real world examples where certain elements have shone and finish off with mention of the greatest matchup in Legacy.

The Tools

Previously I discussed a variety of options that different colour splashes provide. In this article I will provide a defined list of categories that will be compared and discussed in further detail however this is far from an exhaustive selection. It also does not take into account Force of Will which is pretty much a core tool in the deck and unlikely to be anything less than a four-of in most lists.

  • Discard
  • Veil of Summer
  • Orim's Chant / Silence
  • REB / Pyroblast
  • Daze
  • Spell Pierce / Flusterstorm

Discard

Discard comprises of some ratio of Thoughtseize, Duress and Cabal Therapy. Of the three the former is favoured thanks to the ability to hit relevant hatebears like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Meddling Mage or Eidolon of the Great Revel, even despite the life loss clause. Duress hits most relevant, stack based interaction and no life loss clause means it is most suitable to be used post Doomsday resolution as in-pile protection. Because of this balance 1-3 Thoughtseize and 1-2 Duress is probably advised. I personally like 2:1 in Thoughtseize's favour.

Therapy is less favoured at the moment. It has a greater range of efficacy with a higher ceiling of potentially getting multiple hate pieces out of hand in one sweep but with a lower floor of failing to take anything at all. It does have one other advantage (if running Baleful Strix in the deck) that allows you to cast it multiple times thanks to the Flashback clause. Nevilshute has recently been having great success running a 1:1:1 ratio of all three discard spells in their main deck for maximum flexibility.

Targeted discard is a very effective protection method as it allows both the removal of at least one piece of opposing interaction from the opponent. Unlike other options, discard can be used in any preceeding turns to protect the combo or take out any disruptive permanents that may appear (like Chalice of the Void). It also gives information about the opposing player's hand to help inform future decisions.

The main downside to discard, and why it is not the most prevalent secondary interaction element, after countermagic, is of course Veil of Summer. Firing a discard spell into an open mana is a recipe for giving your opponent a 2 for 1. Despite this current meta trend, it's still worth running, it just requires some additional consideration for timing of use.

Veil of Summer

Veil is a very effective tool to combat countermagic or, as just mentioned, protect from opposing discard. It can be an effective way of powering out Doomsday, with a little extra card advantage on the side. Unlike discard, Veil is not as effective to deal with opposing interaction on any turns prior to the one where you intend to cast Doomsday. It also has some additonal considerations on any intended Doomsday combo turn as well.

Veil's cantrip ability can be both a boon and a detriment depending on the timing. If intending to push Doomsday through with Veil you need to consider the implications of them letting the Doomsday resolve with the Veil still in hand and the potential to need to use it after it has resolved. You may need to build the pile under the assumption of both Veil resolving (and cantripping) or not resolving / resolving without cantripping. If not properly considered, you may find yourself in a scenario where Veil is your only protection and Thassa's Oracle is on the Stack facing a Force of Will where you have no cards left in your library. Suddenly the perceived advantage of Veil decreases dramatically.

Because of this, in the context of allowing Doomsday to resolve, it can often be worth initiating the fight by casting Veil without value. It may still force out a response from your opponent and, if paired with other interaction, could still allow you value if the stack starts to get more complex, leading to Veil resolving after other responses from your opponent (such as a desperation Brainstorm for example).

Another thing to note is Veil can offer a false sense of security. It does not protect from cards like Surgical Extraction, Mindbreak Trap or Stifle and thus, should you be in a matchup where these cards are relevant, you must still consider them.

Orim's Chant / Silence

These function much in the same way as Veil does most of the time. They are much worse at being used defensively against opposing discard and do not provide an inherent anti-card-disadvantage clause in them. They are also very bad if you do not intend to win in the same turn that you are resolving Doomsday in. Despite this they are pretty potent tools in the right scenario. At worst they simply eat a counterspell, just as a Duress or Veil might do so. At best they prevent (hopefully) all the opposing interaction available. Other than corner cases such as cycling Nimble Obstructionist, eating Oracle out of the graveyard in response to Unearth with Faerie Macabre or an Aether Vial on 4 putting a Venser, Shaper Savant into play to bounce Oracle off the stack, it should protect you from 99% of what you can expect to face.

If you were to consider a hypothetical combo mirror the three tools above would hold somewhat of a rock-paper-scissors dynamic. Discard tends to be more effective against chant effects, chants better than Veil and Veil beats up on discard. All three sets of tools are perfectly justifiable in use and there is a certain amount of playstyle preference and local / wider metagame shift to consider.

REB / Pyroblast

The next tool to discuss is the pairing of Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast. Often these simply perform like an additional (albeit more limited) copy of Force of Will however there is a bit more nuance to using them in / considering them for your list. They cannot fight over opposing threats for the most part other than something like Show and Tell or Echo of Eons but are instead good at defending against opposing countermagic. They are not effective against opposing Red Blasts but are effective at not being countered by said opposing Red Blasts. Equally, they don't prevent Veil from resolving but equally do not feed into it obtaining value which can make the consideration of using the Veil trickier. Splitting your Red Blast effects is a good idea when facing cards like Surgical Extraction or Meddling Mage as it stops the opponent being able to completely lock out you from the Red Blast effects completely. This is another reason it's good to have a mix of Discard effects too, if running them. On the other hand, if running sideboard cards like Young Pyromancer, Sprite Dragon or even Monastery Mentor, Pyroblast becomes superior to REB because it can be cast without targeting restrictions on anything in play to enable the triggers.

Red Blasts have the second function that makes them favourable which is the ability to potential remove threats from the board as well. Narset, Parter of Veils, Leovold, Emmissary of Trest and Delver of Secrets are all viable targets that warrant removal assuming they were able to resolve in the first place. Though they can be countered (unlike common counterpart Abrupt Decay) they do not get stopped by Veil as decay can be. As with the other three previously mentioned, when to bring Red Blasts along can depend on playstyle, personal preference, expected metagame shifts, or even just limitations of your collection (as some may not have the correct dual lands for a given splash which is totally okay!). There is currently no objectively correct answer on which interaction to bring to the table however a mix is generally considered better. Normally the mix inolves pairing Discard plus one of the other colour splashes (the deck inherently being base meaning this is easier to support) however running say 6-8 Chant/Silences is not uncommon. Certain tools are of course better or worse depending on what you are facing.

Daze

Daze gets a slot all by itself over other potential countermagic due to the mana efficiency it displays. It enables easy and aggressive early combo turns and can protect against a variety of threats. In games expected to go longer it does lose its viability at hitting something but otherwise it can provide an efficient soft counter. This makes it especially viable to be placed inside a Doomsday pile.

Consider the following example:

You have resolved Doomsday/drawn into your stack and have available.

"Ideas Unbound" from Saviors of Kamigawa - Art by Mark Tedin
"Lotus Petal" from Tempest - Art by April Lee
"Edge of Autumn" from Future Sight - Art by Jean-Sébastien Rossbach
"Daze" from Nemesis - Art by Matthew D. Wilson
"Thassa's Oracle" from Theros Beyond Death - Art by Jesper Ejsing

Where something like a Veil, Duress or Force would require additional cards in hand or additional mana, the Daze is easy to slot into our basic pile.

You can also perform some useful tricks with Daze alongside some of the other cards in order to re-use lands when you have a spare land drop or colour filter between them.

Spell Pierce / Flusterstorm

These are both proven and effective disruption / protection pieces. Spell Pierce has the added benefit of being able to deal with a Chalice or Narset in addition to other stack based interaction whereas Flusterstorm is just generally more efficient, normally able to win a large counterwar by itself (generally only superceeded by an opposing Veil or sometimes another Fluster. Both are of course soft counters and thus, like Daze, can lose effectiveness in a longer game. These are perfectly fine to be used in a pile, especially with an excess of available however, unlike the other, more proactive pieces, these can't be used effectively alongside Lion's Eye Diamond.

Example Scenarios

With that, you have a pretty concise (however certainly non-exhaustive) list of stack based interaction tools that could be run. We will now look at a few scenarios where you could find yourself wanting one or more of them including some real world game examples.

Scenario 1

Game 1.
You're at 13 life.
Opponent is on RUG Delver ft. Stifle.
Opponent has 2 Tarmogoyf in play. Both are 3/4.
You have Snow-Covered Swamp, Snow-Covered Island, Snow-Covered Island and Bayou.
You have Arcum's Astrolabe in play.
You already played a land.
Opponent has a single uncracked fetchland in play. 4 cards in hand.

"Dark Ritual" from Mercadian Masques - Art by Rebecca Guay
"Doomsday" from Weatherlight - Art by Adrian Smith
"Force of Will" from Eternal Masters - Art by Terese Nielsen
"Daze" from Nemesis - Art by Matthew D. Wilson
"Brainstorm" from Mercadian Masques - Art by DiTerlizzi
"Duress" from Premium Deck Series: Graveborn - Art by Steven Belledin

In this example we have a situation where if we want to win, we have to be able to resolve Doomsday and win in the same turn thanks to the two Goyfs facing us. Let's quickly explore the face value options and compare them to what the opponent could have, and the other tools at our disposal.

As the scenario stands, the first thing to try would be to consider whether to use the Duress or not. If we think they do not have any interaction, or only a single piece of basic interaction, we could consider casting Dark Ritual into Doomsday and build something simple like:

"Ideas Unbound" from Saviors of Kamigawa - Art by Mark Tedin
"Lotus Petal" from Tempest - Art by April Lee
"Edge of Autumn" from Future Sight - Art by Jean-Sébastien Rossbach
"Lotus Petal" from Tempest - Art by April Lee
"Thassa's Oracle" from Theros Beyond Death - Art by Jesper Ejsing

This will allow us to win through a single piece of disruption thanks to the Force of Will where we would pitch Daze to Force and Brainstorm into the pile. It does however fold to if they have two pieces of interaction. We are constrained on being able to rely on both Daze and Force as it may be that they only have pitch countermagic and so can hold up the fetchland to pay for the Daze. It would also mean we would need to pitch Brainstorm to the Force leaving us with no way to draw into our pile. As a result it is probably best to Duress first to see if we are able to commit into a pile with Force and / or Daze backup.

If we had Veil instead of Duress we should probably also cast it here first. If they cannot stop it then there is only Stifle that we need to be concerned with. You would also have to consider not being able to build a pile that wins with >0 cards in the library as they may still have Lightning Bolt for Oracle. Waiting on Veil to try and accrue value is fine if you know they have an answer to Doomsday here however awkward if they elect to not use it until after the pile is resolved. We cannot assume whether we will be able to resolve Veil and make effective use of the card draw. If we were to have Silence, then they would have to stop it or lose any chance to interact.

For any of the above, if they do try and counter it, we would need to consider whether to commit more cards or not. If they use a Force of Will you cannot Daze back here however it leaves them with only 2 cards left in hand and you with access to Force and/or Daze. If they use a Daze then it gets a little trickier. If it's Duress you can probably pay and maybe wait until next turn to try and go off, now with them 2 cards down and you with additional mana available. If it's Silence or Veil you likely are unable to win this turn and so it is probably better to not pay for it. If it's a Spell Pierce they commit, we can probably commit our Daze to stop it as they have now left themselves unable to pay for it.

If we Play Silence and it Resolves Without Needing to Commit Further Resources

We can easily build a same turn win Brainstorm + LED pile and win.

"Lion's Eye Diamond" from Mirage - Art by Margaret Organ-Kean
"Edge of Autumn" from Future Sight - Art by Jean-Sébastien Rossbach
"Ideas Unbound" from Saviors of Kamigawa - Art by Mark Tedin
"Lotus Petal" from Tempest - Art by April Lee
"Thassa's Oracle" from Theros Beyond Death - Art by Jesper Ejsing
  1. Silence has resolved.
  2. Cast Dark Ritual with Snow-Covered Swamp into Doomsday building the above pile.
  3. Cast Brainstorm with Snow-Covered Island, putting back Force and Ideas Unbound on top.
  4. Cast Lion's Eye Diamond
  5. Cycle EoA cracking LED for and draw Ideas Unbound
  6. Cast Ideas Unbound and draw Force, LP, Oracle
  7. Use the floating and LP to cast Oracle

If we Play Veil and it Resolves Without Needing to Commit Further Resources

We need to try and build something that plays around Stifle or removal for Oracle however we could consider not trying to play around either. They cannot commit both due to their mana constraints so Daze should be sufficient to protect us.

"Lion's Eye Diamond" from Mirage - Art by Margaret Organ-Kean
"Ideas Unbound" from Saviors of Kamigawa - Art by Mark Tedin
"Ponder" from Lorwyn - Art by Mark Tedin
"Lotus Petal" from Tempest - Art by April Lee
"Thassa's Oracle" from Theros Beyond Death - Art by Jesper Ejsing
  1. Veil has resolved.
  2. Cast Dark Ritual with Snow-Covered Swamp into Doomsday building the above pile.
  3. Cast Brainstorm with Snow-Covered Island, putting back Daze and Ideas Unbound on top.
  4. Cast Lion's Eye Diamond
  5. Cast Ponder with Snow-Covered Island cracking LED for and draw Ideas Unbound
  6. Cast Ideas Unbound and draw Daze, LP, Oracle
  7. Use the floating and LP to cast Oracle
  8. Cast Daze on any interaction they might have.

If we play Duress and it resolves we see the following hand

"Spell Snare" from Dissension - Art by Hideaki Takamura
"Stifle" from Scourge - Art by Dany Orizio
"Scalding Tarn" from Zendikar - Art by Philip Straub
"Daze" from Nemesis - Art by Matthew D. Wilson
"Oko, Thief of Crowns" from Throne of Eldraine - Art by Yongjae Choi

Whereas Veil and Silence (in this instance) have effectively nullified a chunk of their hand, Duress, although giving us information on it, has unfortunately still left a problem. We cannot mimic what we did with a resolved Veil as, depending on what we take, they could still Daze / Spell Snare the pile. Now that we've seen their hand, we need to assess what we can / should take and whether we can go for it this turn. We know they don't have removal so it opens up the options for a pile that doesn't leave the deck with 0 cards left in it. We also know they can only use one of their 1 cmc spells if Daze were to be taken which, we could then deal with our own Daze. If we take the Snare it would allow us access to Ideas Unbound however we wouldn't be able to draw into it with Ponder (thanks to Daze) and we couldn't cycle into it with Edge (thanks to Stifle). It is probably best to take a piece of interaction and pass the turn to find additional protection or free up our mana.

Scenario 2

Game 1.
You're at 13 life.
Opponent is on Landstill.
Opponent has Standstill in play.
You have Snow-Covered Swamp, Snow-Covered Island, Snow-Covered Island, Volcanic Island and Underground Sea in play.
You have not played a land.
Opponent has 6 untapped lands, 4 that can make . 5 cards in hand. We know they have at least 1 Force of Will and blue card.

"Dark Ritual" from Mercadian Masques - Art by Rebecca Guay
"Doomsday" from Weatherlight - Art by Adrian Smith
"Force of Will" from Eternal Masters - Art by Terese Nielsen
"Force of Will" from Alliances - Art by Terese Nielsen
"Daze" from Nemesis - Art by Matthew D. Wilson
"Thoughtseize" from Lorwyn - Art by Aleksi Briclot
"Predict" from Odyssey - Art by Rebecca Guay
"Lotus Petal" from Tempest - Art by April Lee

Here we have a scenario where we are not under a huge amount of pressure however, our opponent does have a Standstill in play, we have finally hit 8 cards in our hand so would have to discard one anyways, and they have just landed a threat in the form of a tapped Faerie Conclave. This is a good time to initiate a fight because even with the three cards from Standstill, they only hit parity with us in terms of cards in hand.

We should lead here with Thoughtseize rather than going straight to business with Petal into Doomsday. This gives the most amount of information and allows us, at the very least, to take out the Force of Will we know about from their hand. Again, if this resolves, it will at least enable us to take one relevant spell and see if it safe to try and combo out here. If we had Veil or a Chant effect like Silence, these would also be preferable to lead on as they would act like a pseudo discard spell in this instance, prompting the opponent into having to make a response. Our opponent only seems to be playing so if we were to have a red blast, it could likely answer most of their responses however in that scenario, we would have to commit the Doomsday as the initial spell as we would only have reactive cards. This isn't too bad as in theory it would still trade nicely with most of their relevant interaction however it could mean getting blown out by something like Dovin's Veto. For a deck like Landstill, the only rogue card that really makes Thoughtseize shine over the alternatative options is Nimble Obstructionist being cycled as none of the other options can deal with it.

On Thoughtseizing them, and Standstill resolving, they respond with Force of Will pitching the Supreme Verdict we knew about as their blue card. Now this could tell us one of two things. Either, they have more interaction that they wish to remain hidden and are happy to trade two cards we know about to protect it, or, they have no more interaction and don't want us to know they are shields down. In either scenario, allowing Thoughtseize to resolve is pretty important in providing that information for us so fighting this Force is very justifiable. Even if they commit even further to defending it, it means less possible interaction for the Doomsday itself.

If we do fight further, we need to think on what is worth pitching to our next Force of Will. We have three options; Daze, another Force and Predict. Predict is the card that will allow us to win in this same turn if it turns out they don't have an answer so we want to try and keep this at all costs. Daze is another possible piece of interaction that wouldn't require us to pitch Predict to it (unlike say, a second Force of Will) however even if the opponent hardcast a Force of Will, they would still have the mana to pay for it. Taking all this into account it is likely best to pay for Force of Will with our Daze. This leaves the option to retain a second Force of Will and still leaves Predict available for the combo whilst using the least useful card. If they had hardcast Force of Will and a second piece of cheap interaction like Spell Pierce then we might be able to accrue value from the Daze however the fact they elected to not pay for the first Force of Will indicates it is unlikely this will occur.

Given this, we Force back and they allow Thoughtseize to resolve. We see that their hand has a number of blanks and a Force of Negation plus a blue card. This is part explains why they did not want to hardcast the initial Force of Will so that they would have the mana for the Force of Negation. If they had just allowed Thoughtseize to resolve then we could have taken a Force and then Forced back if they tried to fight over the Doomsday itself.

If they had had a third piece of relevant interaction then keeping our Second Force of Will is correct as it would allow us to fight over the Doomsday resolving and create a pass the turn pile to win the next turn.

The Doomsday Mirror

This could just be titled "Scenario 3" however I want to give special mention to one of my personal favourite matchups on Doomsday; the mirror! It used to be, for older DDFT, that this went a bit more like a Storm mirror with both players slinging discard spells at each other until one person managed to top deck a key winning piece. With the addition of the counter suite and other interactive tools there are a lot of key decision points and a very high level of interaction. As an example my current list runs, as it's interactive elements, 4 Forces, 4 Dazes, 1 Duress, 2 Thoughtseizes, 2 Predicts (yes these can become relevant interaction if the opponent is trying to combo off) main and (for the mirror) 2 Surgicals, 3 Pyroblasts and 2 Veil of Summer (possibly 3) to bring in from the side. My list is pretty greedy on colours however that number is about right for most lists so imagine those 20 cards, then double down on it. There will be about 40 pieces of interaction between the two pilots. Pretty hefty!

So the other day I sat down for some webcam Legacy against my friend, and fellow Doomsday pilot, AgyePA (Nanda/Nandita from the old Storm Board forums/MtGSalvation forums/The Source forums). We are both on Meandeck however due to our deck building and playstyle preferences, there are some slight differences. I am a greedy person and thus play main with both and tools in the sideboard. I also am part control player at heart thereby favouring counterspells and reactive interaction. AgyePA is more of a dedicated Storm pilot at heart and runs a main with a much heavier lean in on discard spells with only as a sideboard splash.

Scenario 3

It's game 3 and we are both sideboarded to the brim with interaction. The mirror is normally grindy unless someone gets a lucky quick kill in and dodges any interaction, so it is quite far in with a lot of lands on both sides. I draw for turn, play a land and have the following hand / board state:

Game 3.
You're at 10 life.
Opponent is on BUG Doomsday.
Opponent has 5 cards in hand, 1 Surgical Extraction known.
Opponent has Misty Rainforest, Polluted Delta, Tropical Island, Underground Sea untapped and another Sea tapped.
You have 2 Underground Sea, Bayou, Volcanic Island and Tropical Island in play.
You already played a land.

My hand is thus:

"Doomsday" from Weatherlight - Art by Adrian Smith
"Force of Will" from Alliances - Art by Terese Nielsen
"Daze" from Nemesis - Art by Matthew D. Wilson
"Pyroblast" from Ice Age - Art by Kaja Foglio
"Veil of Summer" from Core Set 2020 - Art by Lake Hurwitz

My Perspective Only

My draw for the turn was Doomsday. I do a quick assessment to see if I want to go for it here. With the opponent having 4 unknowns and a Surgical in hand, I figure I should be pretty safe to go for it having access to Force, Veil and Pyroblast with the aim to do a pass-the-turn pile which plays around Surgical. I tap my seas and Bayou for and put Doomsday on the stack. My opponent looks at his hand and commits a Veil to the stack. This is a pretty interesting play. I personally see Veil as either the first thing you commit (as the proactive player) or the very last thing you try and commit to the stack as it can trump things like Flusterstorm that could be played in the matchup.

Now this is a good example of where red blast effects can be weak. I would much prefer to use the red blast defensively as Force can then be saved for any threats he might play on the turn I pass for. Now I could consider to allow the Veil to resolve and then Veil myself in response to any potential counterspell he might have but I really want to save it for my combo turn to both protect Oracle from countermagic and to protect me from being targeted by Predicts as I try to combo off. Possibly I should have still just let it happen but I decide to commit to this fight. I decide to Force the Veil and pitch Daze, confident that Pyroblast and Veil will keep me safe enough. He allows Force to resolve and then makes an interesting decision to Surgical my Force. Surgical resolves and he sees my hand of two protection elements. He then allows Doomsday to resolve.

I build the following pile:

"Ponder" from Lorwyn - Art by Mark Tedin
"Edge of Autumn" from Future Sight - Art by Jean-Sébastien Rossbach
"Thassa's Oracle" from Theros Beyond Death - Art by Jesper Ejsing
"Ponder" from Lorwyn - Art by Mark Tedin
"Doomsday" from Weatherlight - Art by Adrian Smith

Now there are a few things to note here. First and foremost this was not the best pile to build as was built on an assumption. The assumption was that he might find another Surgical to target my Doomsday thereby taking the other from the library. This is actually wrong as he is not obligated to take it out at all and thus I have potentially just added an additional dead draw to my deck if it is shuffled. It was also built with the play order of cast Veil off of Bayou, protect with Pyroblast if needed, and then Ponder in Edge, Edge into Oracle and assume he is not running any sort of removal for the matchup (which as he is a good player he is not as it would be very bad here). This pile also has protection from a Predict targeting me in response to the initial Veil. All in all it should be pretty resilient.

After our fight on the stack he is left with two cards in hand and he knows the top card of his deck. I pass the turn and he double fetches ending up with a board of 3 Seas and 2 Tropical Islands. He taps all the Seas and casts his own Doomsday. I cannot do anything about it with my hand, with no relevant draws off of cycling Veil, plus I can't fight over any cantrip he tries to draw into his pile with, so I let is resolve. He builds his pile and passes the turn.

I draw the first Ponder, cast Veil off of Bayou (as I need the access to potentially or after and it resolves allowing me to win without issue. This seems pretty simple so far but we have the luxury of the perspective of both players and their thought processes in this instance so let's break it down from the other side too.

Both Perspectives

First we should consider what AgyePA had in hand. On my Doomsday being placed on the stack it looked like this:

"Doomsday" from Weatherlight - Art by Adrian Smith
"Force of Will" from Alliances - Art by Terese Nielsen
"Daze" from Nemesis - Art by Matthew D. Wilson
"Surgical Extraction" from New Phyrexia Promos - Art by Greg Staples
"Veil of Summer" from Core Set 2020 - Art by Lake Hurwitz

Almost identical in fact however he knew he had a Daze on the top of his deck. After Doomsday was cast he decided to go for Veil because, in his words, "I was blinkered onto accessing that second Daze". As I said before, Veil should probably be the initiator card or the very last thing you commit to the stacks so, in his position, I would have liked to have led with Force but we will discuss the hypotheticals in a bit.

After I had committed my own Force to the stack he had a choice to try and Force back (probably targeting the original Doomsday) or to try and Surgical something. He was cognisant of the fact I was representing Pyroblast and / or Veil with my Trop x Volc combination open so was loathe to commit the Force into it without information. What is useful to note here too is my graveyard was practically only cantrips, lands and discard spells. Nothing that could help in a prolonged counter war or that could severly hamper my ability to build a winning pile. Based on this and the fact he knew I was aware of his Surgical, and thus would build a pile to play around it, he decided to allow my Force to resolve and then Surgical it with Doomsday still on the stack. If my two remaining cards he had seen were Force and a blue card then this play rewards him by taking out my chance to interact or, at the very least, it takes the card away from me if Doomsday does resolve and I want to add it to my pile as protection.

On Surgical resolving, and him seeing my hand, he decided not to commit the Force to the fight knowing it would not be able to achieve anything. After Doomsday resolved and the turn was passed to him he knew he didn't want the Daze on top so fetched to try and find a Predict, potentially allowing him to try and go for a win, or another Force of Will, letting him hold up double Force and a blue card to try and beat my pile. He drew and found a Dark Ritual. Given he wasn't able to fight me he decided to jam Doomsday, leaving up both Trops, and create a no-nonsense pile that wins on the spot with Cavern of Souls. This way if I had built a pile that had to pass the turn once more, he could just try and win.

"Edge of Autumn" from Future Sight - Art by Jean-Sébastien Rossbach
"Street Wraith" from Future Sight - Art by Cyril Van Der Haegen
"Veil of Summer" from Core Set 2020 - Art by Lake Hurwitz
"Thassa's Oracle" from Theros Beyond Death - Art by Jesper Ejsing
"Cavern of Souls" from Avacyn Restored - Art by Cliff Childs

Unfortunately in this instance it was not the case so when I led on Veil, he decided to hold Force back just in case I couldn't win that turn.

Between us we certainly made some sub-optimal decisions both in terms of our stack commitment and pile building so let's take a look at some of the key points / decisions we made, both with our own interaction and our responses to our opponent's interaction.

Veil in Response to Doomsday

This is the first main point of contention. As AgyePA mentioned, he was somewhat blinkered on the line of accessing that Daze that he had floating on his deck however, at the time of casting it, I had 2 mana open to pay for it. I think leading with Force of Will (pitching Daze) here is correct. It presses the issue and makes me have to try and commit to stop it whereas with Veil, if I have my own, I could just let it resolve and try to Veil his follow up counterspell. If he had Forced, I probably would have gone to Pyroblast it. This is because Pyroblast has limited targets in the matchup and Force of Will is a better overall answer to anything he may try and play. It can't deal with Veil, Flusterstorm or Doomsday itself so I probably want it out of my hand as soon as possible. Following this, he should probably commit the Veil, this way it allows him to access the Daze later on when I have already committed some mana to the fight to which I would then commit the Force (pitching Daze). The fight would have still ended in my favour however I personally think this would be the best line for him if committing to the fight.

Surgical During the Fight Over Doomsday

The logic of the Surgical, as discussed above, was heavily influenced from the fact I knew about it from a number of turns prior, and thus it has lost it's value as a result. Talking it over afterwards we agreed that actually this was not the case. Although I did know about it, I still had to try and build around it. If he had held it, I would have not been able to defend against it with Veil (one of the aforementioned weaknesses) and, with the pile I built, there is a risk that I would draw Doomsday or Oracle, maybe even one after another to then lose 2 turns to shuffle variance. As a result it would definately have been correct to have held back the Surgical here.

My pile

As I said before the pile I made was based on a faulty assumption. What I should have built was something along the lines of:

"Ponder" from Lorwyn - Art by Mark Tedin
"Ponder" from Lorwyn - Art by Mark Tedin
"Thassa's Oracle" from Theros Beyond Death - Art by Jesper Ejsing
"Ponder" from Lorwyn - Art by Mark Tedin
"Ponder" from Lorwyn - Art by Mark Tedin

The only variant to this would be that I had used some Ponders previously therefore, to maximise the information hidden from my opponent building something like the below may be better. At least in a tournament setting.

"Ponder" from Lorwyn - Art by Mark Tedin
"Preordain" from Magic 2011 - Art by Svetlin Velinov
"Thassa's Oracle" from Theros Beyond Death - Art by Jesper Ejsing
"Ponder" from Lorwyn - Art by Mark Tedin
"Preordain" from Magic 2011 - Art by Svetlin Velinov

This gives only one potential dead draw that forces you to pass the turn again in Oracle and gives a deterministic win (assuming Veil resolves). If you do draw Oracle, you can still protect it from an opposing Thoughtseize with Veil and still try to go off with Pyroblast backup the next turn.

AgyePA's Pile

I said he had built something no-nonsense however the astute of you will have noticed he would have needed to have multiple turns of passing to have managed to play Oracle. He probaly should have built something like:

"Ideas Unbound" from Saviors of Kamigawa - Art by Mark Tedin
"Cavern of Souls" from Avacyn Restored - Art by Cliff Childs
"Veil of Summer" from Core Set 2020 - Art by Lake Hurwitz
"Edge of Autumn" from Future Sight - Art by Jean-Sébastien Rossbach
"Thassa's Oracle" from Theros Beyond Death - Art by Jesper Ejsing

With the above he basically would be brute forcing through Oracle with his Force backup and have Cavern / Veil to help resolve it whilst also playing around the possibility of Pyroblast killing it in response to the Oracle trigger (assuming >0 cards left).

Closing Thoughts

Well done through making it all the way. This was a hefty thing to write with a lot of jumping back and forth through decision trees (which are hard to present in prose!) and hypothetical situations. Hopefully it all made sense however please get in contact if you have any improvement suggestions or any suggestions for future content!

Until next time.

May you find victory in the hypothetical end times!


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