Doomsday Versus Hate

Preamble

Part of the appeal of Doomsday as a card and as a deck is its flexibility. Doomsday allows you to tutor up just the right set of five cards to pull out a win from a wide variety of situations. Some hate that other storm combo decks would struggle against, Doomsday can beat rather easily. Of course there are things Doomsday struggles with but we'll discuss ways to fight through all kinds of hate. This will be far from comprehensive but it should give you a strong basis for how to approach different types of interaction from your opponents.

Generally when thinking about different types of interaction and combo-hate your opponent might have, it is useful to break it down into categories that have similar techniques for fighting individual cards in them. We'll use 3 main categories: Countermagic, Discard, Permanants, and a 4th Miscellaneous category which will cover cards that don't fit nicely into the others.

Fighting through Countermagic

Throughout the history of Legacy, roughly 30-50% of decks at any given time have played the card Force of Will. Countermagic is the most common type of interaction/hate your opponent will have for you in game 1, and so you must be prepared to play against it. Due to how common countermagic is, the deck is well prepared for the fight.

Discard spells and Veil of Summer will be your primary tools against countermagic. This makes the basics of playing against countermagic relatively straightforward. Try to resolve a Veil or hit your opponent with some discard before you try to go off. If you can simply get rid of all your opponent's countermagic, then you can combo freely. Against "soft" counters like Daze and Spell Pierce, you can beat them by simply having extra mana, via rituals or plenty of lands. What can you do though if they have "harder" counters that you can't get rid of?

Example 1

One thing to consider is using a pass-the-turn pile. Lets say your opponent lets you resolve Doomsday but still has a Force of Will. You could use a pass-the-turn pile like this:

Ponder in hand - , 2 life

You draw Thoughtseize for turn, take the Force from your opponent's hand, and then Ponder into the rest of the pile to win with Oracle. This type of pile can work against many kinds of interaction, but it's really only effective if they have just one card you care about.

Example 2

Another option if your opponent has something like Flusterstorm is to avoid casting lots of instants and sorceries. If you're playing multiple Street Wraith, a pile like this can completely invalidate Flusterstorm (assuming Doomsday resolves):

, 4 life

This can be executed as a pass-the-turn pile, where you never have to cast another Fluster-able spell after Doomsday, or if you have a cantrip in hand you can do it all in one turn and hope they don't counter the cantrip. If they do, simply win next turn.

Example 3

What about something like Pyroblast? Ideas Unbound and Thassa's Oracle are both blue, so this poses some difficulty. Fortunately, the sideboard gives us some options to work with.

LED, BW in hand - + , 12+ life pre-DD - 9 Storm

The Draw-4 in the sideboard lets you use Burning Wish as a cantrip into your pile, and you can storm off without ever casting a blue spell. The life cost is hefty, since you halve your life total twice and then pay 2 life, but the key point here is that it is possible.

Example 4

How about Stifle? Stifle is unaffected by Veil of Summer, stops both ways you'd try to win (Oracle and storm), but it won't stop you from drawing your pile.

Ponder in hand - , 2 life

If you're not worried about your spells being countered, you can move the discard spell deeper into the pile. Ponder into Ideas Unbound and cast it to draw a discard spell, LED, and Wraith. cast the discard spell to take Stifle, and then you're free to cycle into Oracle.

Playing Through Discard

It is common to face discard in the legacy format, especially from other combo decks and non-blue midrange. Discard comes in a few varieties, a la Thoughtseize, Hymn to Tourach, and Liliana of the Veil, but you fight through them all in fundamentally the same way. Pass-the-turn piles are a powerful weapon against discard. They don't need to rely on cards in hand after Doomsday, and they require minimal initial input, i.e. a single hardcast Doomsday may be all you need.

Example 1

, 2 life

You've seen this pile before, but we bring it up again here for its simplcity. It is efficient and requires no cards in hand, making it invulnerable to discard.

Example 2

Echo, 1 other card in hand -

This is similar to some Echo pile examples, except it is presented as a pass-the-turn pile. It doesn't matter if they hit you with discard, since you want the Echo in your graveyard anyway and the other card in hand doesn't matter. You'll untap, draw LED, flashback Echo, and win with Oracle. Note too the order of the pile here. It actually matters, since if something happens and you can't Echo, you may still be able to win by simply passing a few more turns before you play Oracle.

Just in general, Echo is a strong card against decks that primarily interact with hand hate. You can play out LEDs to protect them from discard, and then later on use an Echo for value to simply refill your hand. Similarly, if an Echo gets discarded to something like a Hymn or Liliana, you can simply flash it back to restock as soon as you have enough mana.

Playing Through Permanent-based Hate

Permanent based hate is among the most annoying you will have to face. This section will be rather long, because we'll address techniques for beating the most common permanents

Chalice of the Void

Chalice is the most common piece of permanent hate you will face so knowing how to deal with it is a must. In the sideboard, you will have options to remove it, potentially even ones you can wish for, so we'll focus on piles that can win with it still on the battlefield.

Chalice on 0 / Null Rod / Collector Ouphe / Stony Silence

All of these effects do the same thing: turn off your 0-cost artifacts. They don't hinder your ability to assemble your combo, but most piles rely on 0-cost artifacts which substantially complicates things. Casting Veil of Summer before going off means you can ignore a Chalice, but doesn't help at all against the others. Removing it is an option but may not be possible in game 1, depending on your decklist. Let's look at piles that can work without artifacts.

Chalice on 0, Ponder in hand - + , 4 life

With 2 Street Wraith in the deck, you can avoid casting any 0-cmc spells.

Ponder in hand, land drop remaining - + , 4 life

This pile works without the need for Street Wraith. You never have to cycle it, that slot could be anything, but here it gets you to 0 cards in the deck. You can use a land drop to make to help cast Oracle, but it still requires a ton of blue mana, making things difficult.

Ponder in hand, + - 8 Storm

Ponder in hand, + , 2 life - 7 Storm

Storm kills are theoretically possible through a chalice on 0, although they require quite a bit of mana.

Chalice on 1

Chalice on 1 makes it tough to assemble your combo, since it turns off your cantrips, but it does very little to prevent you from winning if you can actualy cast Doomsday.

, 2 life

The simplest pass-the-turn pile possible contains no 1-cost spells. You've seen this one before.

Echo, LED in hand - - 10 Storm

Echo piles can win with Tendrils without ever casting a 1-cost spell.

BW, LED in hand - + , 12+ life pre-DD - 9 Storm

Another storm kill that doesn't use 1-cost spells. Wishing for the Draw-4 eliminates the need for a 1-mana cantrip. This one has a hefty life cost though.

Chalice on 2

Chalice on 2 is reltively rare, but it turns off Wish and Oracle. f you resolve Veil of Summer before going off you can just ignore it. This is the preferred method. For the sake of completeness, here is a pile that can work through a Chalice on 2.

Ponder in hand - + - 7 Storm

This pile requires you to have a Draw-4 and Tendrils in your maindeck, which is uncommon

There has been some discussion of playing Cavern of Souls, which could let you play Oracle through Chalice on 2 (and normal countermagic for that matter). It would be a completely dead card outside of piles and so is likely not worth a slot, but its something to think about.

Gaddock Teeg / Leyline of Sanctity

Simple Doomsday piles that win with Thassa's Oracle can safely ignore any combination of these cards.

Thalia / Thorn of Amethyst / Sphere of Resistance

Pass-the-turn piles with Oracle are your best bet for playing through taxing effects. By giving yourself an untap step, you make it substantially easier to play through the tax.

Ponder in hand - with tax

Pass the turn after Doomsday. Untap and draw LED. Cast it for . Spend on Ponder, holding priority and crack LED for . Draw Street Wraith, cycle it into Oracle, and win with 2 cards left.

Trinisphere / Ethersworn Canonist / Deafening Silence

These types of effects make it difficult or impossible to cast more than 1 spell per turn. Trinisphere typically has this effect and even though it is not strictly the same effect, similar piles will work against all 3.

SW in hand - 4 life ( versus Trinisphere)

Pass the turn after Doomsday. Draw LED for turn, cast it, and cycle both Wraiths (making UUU with LED) to draw and play Oracle. Agianst Trinisphere, you'll need to play LED, but then LED generates enough mana to cast Oracle. Against Canonist or Deafening Silence, you only cast 1 artifact and 1 creature, and both lockpieces permit you to cast 1 of each.

If you don't have a Street Wraith in hand, you can do the exact same pile but pass 2 turns.

Narset and Leovold

Narset, Parter of Veils and Leovold, Emissary of Trest both make it difficult to win the game by making you unable to draw through your pile. The key to both cards is that you can't draw more than 1 card per turn, meaning you can draw a card on your opponent's turn.

You need to pass 2 turns to execute this pile. On your first turn, you'll draw Wraith. Pass, and cycle it on your opponent's turn to draw Veil of Summer. Draw Oracle for your next turn. Cast Oracle, and use Veil to protect it if needed. Veil is useful here because it protects from countermagic and Removal. A discard spell could also work in this slot. Unfortunately, the decks that most commonly play Narset and Leovold are blue decks, which makes passing 2 turns a dangerous proposition. But the pile is there, so you should know about it.

Counterbalance

Playing through Counterbalance is not easy. Using a normal decklist, in game 1 there is no standard way of getting through it. If you can resolve a Veil of Summer that will certainly work, but most Counterbalance players will try to keep a 1-cost card on top of their deck as much as possible so this can prove difficult. Natural Storm can also be effective. Sometimes you can convince a Counterbalance player to cast spells to change the cost of their top card, thereby adding to your storm count and unlocking other cards in your hand. This isn't always going to work but it is worth trying.

After sideboarding, if you have Abrupt Decay in your deck, you can use it to remove Counterbalance before going off.

Ponder, LED in hand -

Pass the turn after Doomsday, then draw the Decay for your turn. Kill the Counterbalance, and then go off. This type of pile is widely applicable to a variety of permanent based hate, and the top card can be swapped for another removal spell if you need to deal with something Abrupt Decay can't handle.

Miscellaneous Hate

Veil of Summer

While Veil can stop your discard and turn off your Storm game plan, it does nothing against a typical Thassa's Oracle Doomsday pile. against decks that can potentially play Veil of Summer, you should prefer to via a non-Tendrils means, with Doomsday+Oracle being the preference in general.

Grindstone

Grindstone or other milling effects provide an interesting roadblock to going off with Doomsday. A timely mill can completely destroy a pile. Any effect that draws 3 or more cards can be very dangerous, because you can deck yourself if they mill in response. You can think of Grindstone and other mill effects as a way to change the order of you pile, and we have access to a card that renders the order of our pile irrelevant: Echo of Eons. This will be your strongest tool for beating an onboard Grindstone; standard Echo piles are well suited to the job of beating mill effects. Keep in mind though, that decks that play Grindstone often play Pyroblast as well.

Meddling Mage

Meddling Mage is a tricky card. It isn't included in the Permanent-based Hate section because the card they name will substantially effect how you play differently to beat it. Obviously, if they name Doomsday, you need to remove it or win through other means. If they name Tendrils of Agony or Thassa's Oracle, you can win with the other without much trouble. A card like Dark Ritual is not used in many piles, but it can make casting Doomsday harder, and make a non-Doomsday kill almost impossible. Naming Lion's Eye Diamond isn't terribly difficult either. Ideas Unbound can draw 2 Petal and an Oracle and never need to use LED. Likewise, Lotus Petal isn't used in many piles, so you have options there too. The point of all this is to illustrate that there is no single card they can name that completely wrecks you. The biggest threat from Meddling Mage is bad timing, i.e you set up for a certain type of kill, and Mage comes down and ruins it just before you would try to go off. Now your ability to shift gears may be limited, making it harder to recover.

Opposition Agent, Ashiok, and Friends

There are several cards of varying playability that all have the effect of preventing you from searching your library. This obviously turns off Doomsday, but you can potentially win with a non-Doomsday storm kill. Ashiok will remove your graveyard as well, but the other 2 let you search it with Doomsday, meaning you can potentially play through them if you're lucky and able to get the cards you need in the grave. And of course in the case of Leonin Arbiter, you can always just pay to ignore it.

Surgical Extraction/Extirpate

These types of effects are troublesome not only because they can remove an important piece from your deck but also because they force a shuffle. A well-timed Surgical suprise can mess up the order of a pile and make it very unlikely that you'll win. There are a few ways to mitigate the effect of Surgical though.

LED, Echo, 1 other card in hand - + - 10 Storm including Surgical

Echo lets you draw the entire pile and the order doesn't matter, so they are well suited to combatting Surgical effects. Note that this one is built without Lion's Eye Diamond, since that is presumably the card that will get extracted. You could build an Oracle pile in a similar fashion. It is import to consider the sequencing of your spells when playing against extraction effects. You cannot take any actions between cracking LED and flashing back Echo, or you will give your opponent priority and the chance to extract the Echo. After Echo, it is possible they could have another Surgical Extraction, so you should sequence carefully here too. Play the Petals first. If you use a Petal before casting the second, they'll have an opportunity to Extract, and likewise with the Rituals.

This next technique won't work against Extirpate due to Split Second but it can be effective at fighting Surgical Extraction

Ponder, Brainstorm in hand - + , maximum 4 life

After casting Doomsday, lead off with Ponder. If they Surgical, respond with Brainstorm so you can get the LED in your hand, and then draw a Street Wraith with Ponder. From here, you can cast LED, cycle Wraith making UUU, and be able to win. If they don't Surgical in response to the Ponder, simply draw the LED. Cast it, then Brainstorm making UUU with LED. If they Surgical in response to BS, you'll win no matter what you draw. If they don't you'll still win from here even if they Surgical later on.

The takeaway here is that the instant speed draw of Brainstorm lets you get the one card you absolutely need, and the order of the rest of the pile doesn't matter.

Endurance

A new card from 2021 that is seeing a lot of play, both in blue decks and non-blue decks. It can ruin Oracle piles for 0 mana and has proven troublesome for many Doomsday players. If you walk into it, you're liable to get completely blown out. However, DDFT can play around it much more easily than other Domsday variants by not using Oracle. Endurance will have no effect on a typical Storm kill pile. Echo piles can also be used to dodge Endurance, though care must be taken not to put more than 2 cards back into your graveyard.

LED, Echo in hand - BBB

This is a simple Echo pile setup that leaves no cards in grave or deck after casting Echo. If you only crack 2 petals to cast Oracle, then you'll win even if they have endurance. If they have Endurance plus removal, you can cycle the Wraiths after Endurance to draw the 2 remaining cards.

This principle can be applied to non-Echo piles as well. The following pass-the-turn pile can beat an Endurance without giving your opponent a fresh hand.

UUU (lands only!), 2 life

After your draw step gives you IU, you cast it to draw land, Oracle and a Street Wraith. At this point, Doomsday and IU are in your graveyard and there's 1 card left in your deck (the actual card you put in the pile here doesn't matter). Play the Island and cast TO. If they respond with Endurance, you can use Street Wraith to draw 1 of the 3 cards after it resolves to leave only 2 in library for the Oracle trigger.

You can also beat Endurance by passing multiple turns after Doomsday and making land drops to have mana for Oracle that doesn't put cards in the graveyard.

Various Other Graveyard Hate

Graveyard hate generally is not all that effective against DDFT. Only Echo of Eons is at all affected as a gameplan, and against a card like Tormod's Crypt proper sequencing will let you Echo through it anyway. Cabal Ritual has reduced effectiveness against some grave hate, but it's still at least +1 mana no matter what. One way you can get into a bit of trouble is if they have exiling grave hate like Leyline of the Void and discard, and manage to exile the cards you need in your pile. This sort of situation is so rare that it frankly isn't worth worrying too much about.

Conclusion

1. There is very little hate that is completely unbeatable
2. This does not mean that you can win from any situation. To beat some of the most hateful things your opponent can throw at you, you'll need plenty of time and mana and you won't always have that.
3. Play to your outs, even if the odds are very long.
4. Thassa's Oracle is an extremely powerful addition to the deck and immensely useful for beating all kinds of hate.